“Victory over Iran means a long, bloody fight, one where the clocks move slowly. What would come after that is decades of blood and treasure.”
The essence of the problem is, “Of what economic use is a defeated Iran to the US”? One can easily see Israeli gains, but the US has nothing it needs from Iran. Back in the early days of the beginning of the sand wars, oil was big thing, but not today. Terrorism? Nukes? All a parade of horribles pulled forward from an unknowable future.
Bankruptcy is a disaster all of its own. Quite real and predictable.
When lives—American lives are at stake—I’m a a bit skeptical wrt to vague “geopolitical” goals, especially when Israel is a part of such. I would also argue that wrt to oil as a factor in the first Gulf war.
If there is one thing that will unite the left and the right in this country is opposition to the US getting involved in a shooting match with Iran. I sense no enthusiasm for another war in this country and if we go forward with it there will be a huge political divide. After a couple of years of watching Israel slaughter civilians, I think people have had it with the Middle East.
Counter to what Americans will read or heard from NYT or Fox News or even from what you will get from pro-Russian commentators on X/YouTube, Russia’s primary objective truly is to destroy the Ukrainian military and is not about conquering the entire country. My guess is that the only additional territory Russia will want (outside of the four new territories plus Crimea) is Odessa and Nikolaev and is more than content for the successor Ukrainian regime to sort out the rest. Putin actually does think long term and knows how expensive it will be to rebuild the four regions it has already annexed (even if the cities haven’t been destroyed). There is no one in the White House who has thought beyond the end of this month.
You are confusing a punitive raid with nation building as advocated by retard like Bush, Cheney and Powell. We don't need to invade to destroy Iran's ability to make a nuke or refine oil, for that matter.
Exactly this. That one centrifuge is the issue. After that, who cares if the mullahs stay or go? Iran currently has no capacity to hurt our armed forces unless we start the nation building thing all over again.
Anyone who understands the significance of geography, specifically mountain ranges and deserts, knows we will never invade Iran. It is preposterous to think anyone is advocating that.
It is possible that with Iran greatly weakened, Trump will facilitate normalization between most of the Islamic states and Israel. That is not the end of the world. It is a new beginning. And oil is ALWAYS an American long term interest.
A lot of commentators here are not catching up & are still living in the past. Imperial America is over & if it doesn't get to realise this & face up to it's internal problems, it's toast. Trump might be the solution, the political alternative represented by the Democrats is a suicide pill.
No empire lasts forever but Italy still exists & has some lovely ruins, art & architecture.
Me, I believe they mean death to America as they shout it. We already have low key sharia law in some neighborhoods in some of our cities. EU, much of it blatantly so.
"Victory over Iran means a long, bloody fight" . . . well, possibly. However, Iran (and Muslim forces in general) has/have a long history of issuing bloodcurdling threats with much firing of rifles in the air . . . but with little actual follow through. Just a few months ago, we were assured that Iran and its proxies had tens of thousands of ballistic missiles pre-positioned to "rain fires of hell on Israel, leaving nothing but ashes." But, so far, the bluster has not been backed up by effective action. Partly because Israel obliterated the proxies in Lebanon and Syria and Gaza, partly because of effective missile defense systems, but at least partly because Iran seems to be all turbans and little to no technology.
Their missile defense systems don’t work though. Have you not been paying any attention to this? Modern defense systems are truly incapable of defending against the types of attacks we see Russia and Iran employ.
I guess we are indeed paying attention to different things. My sources are business colleagues in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, who report that instead of tens of thousands of missiles, there were a couple of hundred the first day, now dwindling to nearly nothing . . . all apparently directionless and causing negligible damage. Something is causing the "fire from hell" to fail instead of fall.
Hypersonic missiles are getting through but they are few, expensive and ((compared to a fighter bomber) carry a light payload. Meanwhile the IAF is able to operate over eastern Iran with near impunity. Regime change is a failure but Iran is severely weakened. It is also a big L for Russia as they are a no show in terms of support. Everyone says Russia is winning in Ukraine but this debacle along with the fall of Syria shows that the Ziocons are getting just what they wanted out of the conflict.
Interesting is the operation of Mossad inside Iran identifying targets, launching drones and enabling decapitation strikes. In comparison no other Middle East players are able to mount any sort of operations inside Israel other than kids throwing rocks.
The goal of the Ziocons is to not let Israel go the way of Rhodesia. That country fell mainly due to the fact that it was surrounded on 3 sides by hostile countries who sponsored an insurgency. That is why the U.S. supports puppet regimes along Israel’s border.
A package bomb left on a bus has a much bigger psychological effect on a populace than the threat of hypersonic missiles due to the random nature and inability to strike back. Just ask a Rhodesian.
'We want this! And that! We demand a share in that, and most of that, some of this, and f**king all of that! Less of that, and more of this, and f**king plenty of this! And another thing, we want it now! I want it yesterday, I want f**king more tomorrow, and the demands will all be changed then so f**king stay awake!'
“Victory over Iran means a long, bloody fight, one where the clocks move slowly. What would come after that is decades of blood and treasure.”
The essence of the problem is, “Of what economic use is a defeated Iran to the US”? One can easily see Israeli gains, but the US has nothing it needs from Iran. Back in the early days of the beginning of the sand wars, oil was big thing, but not today. Terrorism? Nukes? All a parade of horribles pulled forward from an unknowable future.
Bankruptcy is a disaster all of its own. Quite real and predictable.
Modern wars are about geopolitics, not economics. The first and second Iraq wars were not about oil.
When lives—American lives are at stake—I’m a a bit skeptical wrt to vague “geopolitical” goals, especially when Israel is a part of such. I would also argue that wrt to oil as a factor in the first Gulf war.
Dude there is massive economic potential in Iran.
If there is one thing that will unite the left and the right in this country is opposition to the US getting involved in a shooting match with Iran. I sense no enthusiasm for another war in this country and if we go forward with it there will be a huge political divide. After a couple of years of watching Israel slaughter civilians, I think people have had it with the Middle East.
Counter to what Americans will read or heard from NYT or Fox News or even from what you will get from pro-Russian commentators on X/YouTube, Russia’s primary objective truly is to destroy the Ukrainian military and is not about conquering the entire country. My guess is that the only additional territory Russia will want (outside of the four new territories plus Crimea) is Odessa and Nikolaev and is more than content for the successor Ukrainian regime to sort out the rest. Putin actually does think long term and knows how expensive it will be to rebuild the four regions it has already annexed (even if the cities haven’t been destroyed). There is no one in the White House who has thought beyond the end of this month.
The longer jews run things, the worse things get for non-jews. It's the Jewish Way.
You are confusing a punitive raid with nation building as advocated by retard like Bush, Cheney and Powell. We don't need to invade to destroy Iran's ability to make a nuke or refine oil, for that matter.
Exactly this. That one centrifuge is the issue. After that, who cares if the mullahs stay or go? Iran currently has no capacity to hurt our armed forces unless we start the nation building thing all over again.
Anyone who understands the significance of geography, specifically mountain ranges and deserts, knows we will never invade Iran. It is preposterous to think anyone is advocating that.
Nothing that another $200 billion won't fix. Government's create ALL the problems and spend the money hoping to buy their way out of them.
It is possible that with Iran greatly weakened, Trump will facilitate normalization between most of the Islamic states and Israel. That is not the end of the world. It is a new beginning. And oil is ALWAYS an American long term interest.
A lot of commentators here are not catching up & are still living in the past. Imperial America is over & if it doesn't get to realise this & face up to it's internal problems, it's toast. Trump might be the solution, the political alternative represented by the Democrats is a suicide pill.
No empire lasts forever but Italy still exists & has some lovely ruins, art & architecture.
Your welcome to you opinion.
Me, I believe they mean death to America as they shout it. We already have low key sharia law in some neighborhoods in some of our cities. EU, much of it blatantly so.
Wow, you know a lot about Trump and the Mideast, Iran the rest of us don’t, Z man!
"Victory over Iran means a long, bloody fight" . . . well, possibly. However, Iran (and Muslim forces in general) has/have a long history of issuing bloodcurdling threats with much firing of rifles in the air . . . but with little actual follow through. Just a few months ago, we were assured that Iran and its proxies had tens of thousands of ballistic missiles pre-positioned to "rain fires of hell on Israel, leaving nothing but ashes." But, so far, the bluster has not been backed up by effective action. Partly because Israel obliterated the proxies in Lebanon and Syria and Gaza, partly because of effective missile defense systems, but at least partly because Iran seems to be all turbans and little to no technology.
Their missile defense systems don’t work though. Have you not been paying any attention to this? Modern defense systems are truly incapable of defending against the types of attacks we see Russia and Iran employ.
I guess we are indeed paying attention to different things. My sources are business colleagues in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, who report that instead of tens of thousands of missiles, there were a couple of hundred the first day, now dwindling to nearly nothing . . . all apparently directionless and causing negligible damage. Something is causing the "fire from hell" to fail instead of fall.
Hypersonic missiles are getting through but they are few, expensive and ((compared to a fighter bomber) carry a light payload. Meanwhile the IAF is able to operate over eastern Iran with near impunity. Regime change is a failure but Iran is severely weakened. It is also a big L for Russia as they are a no show in terms of support. Everyone says Russia is winning in Ukraine but this debacle along with the fall of Syria shows that the Ziocons are getting just what they wanted out of the conflict.
Interesting is the operation of Mossad inside Iran identifying targets, launching drones and enabling decapitation strikes. In comparison no other Middle East players are able to mount any sort of operations inside Israel other than kids throwing rocks.
The goal of the Ziocons is to not let Israel go the way of Rhodesia. That country fell mainly due to the fact that it was surrounded on 3 sides by hostile countries who sponsored an insurgency. That is why the U.S. supports puppet regimes along Israel’s border.
A package bomb left on a bus has a much bigger psychological effect on a populace than the threat of hypersonic missiles due to the random nature and inability to strike back. Just ask a Rhodesian.
We are in the Billy Connolly foreign policy era.
'We want this! And that! We demand a share in that, and most of that, some of this, and f**king all of that! Less of that, and more of this, and f**king plenty of this! And another thing, we want it now! I want it yesterday, I want f**king more tomorrow, and the demands will all be changed then so f**king stay awake!'